Originally published in SindhuNews December 10, 2020.
This interview of Richard Benkin about Bangladesh and its Hindu population has been conducted and transcribed by Prof. Shonu Nangia. Both Prof. Nangia and Dr Benkin have been nominated as visiting residents at Silchar’s The Northeast India Company in 2019-2020. Details about their residency and participation can be found at www.theneic.com
1.. How did you become interested in Bangladesh?
The simple answer is because someone asked. Quite a few years ago, a journalist there contacted me to ask for help in bringing Bangladeshis unbiased news about Israel. As a result of that contact, we worked together and made real progress—until he was arrested and charged with capital crimes of blasphemy and treason for urging Bangladesh-Israel relations and exposing the rise of radical Islam in Bangladesh. After successfully freeing him, I was able to get into Bangladesh where I heard about the persecution of Hindus. When I returned home, a Hindu whose family had fled to India faxed me and asked me to “please save us.” That’s when I started devoting my life to the Hindus of Bangladesh.
Until 2013, I was barred from entering the country, except the time mentioned above, which had me in Dhaka during the 2007 military coup. Since then, I’m in Bangladesh two or three times a year, thanks in part to the consistent support of Dr. Daniel Pipes and the Middle East Forum who recognize the link between our efforts. Thanks also goes to the Bangladeshi embassy in Washington whose principals always welcome me cordially, and who recently granted me a ten-year, multi-entry visa. They comprise a very professional group who give me hope for eventual resolution of this human rights atrocity.
2. What kind of hostilities, discrimination and violence have Hindus been facing in recent times in Bangladesh?
I scrutinized about 135 anti-Hindu incidents that took place during Bangladesh’s initial COVID lockdown, March 26 through May 30, figuring that if the government enforces social distancing and other restrictions but refuses to enforce them for attacks on Hindus, it would be clear just how committed that government is to eliminating Hindus and Hinduism. I have very strict standards for accepting an allegation, and even using them, I was able to confirm 85 multi-crime incidents specifically targeting Hindus in a 66 day period. In normal times, I might witness incidents myself, which qualifies an incident for inclusion. If I have not, however, which obviously is the case since COVID, I have to confirm the incident with two independent witnesses; additional sources help, too. I also analyze allegations based on my own knowledge of Bangladesh on the ground and general principles of reasonableness, consistency, etc.
The incidents in this study all were serious crimes, including murder, gang rape, Mandir destruction, child abduction, forced conversion, land grabbing, and more. And in all of these cases, the government refused to take any action against the criminals, sending everyone the message that you can commit anti-Hindu atrocities in Bangladesh with impunity.
3. Cities like Lahore, Karachi, and Dhaka were actually Hindu majority in 1947. In East Bengal (today’s Bangladesh) Hindus made up around 33 percent of the population even years after 1947. To quote your own words, “Hindus have gone from a third of the population in 1951, to a fifth in 1971, to between seven and eight percent today.” Why hasn’t the world taken note? Why has there been no outrage, not even in India?
The wall of indifference about this atrocity is formidable in blocking real change. There are several reasons for it. The first is that Bangladesh gained its independence as a “moderate” and “secular” nation, which was in contrast to the nation from which it broke, Pakistan. Even India helped the revolt, people tell me when they assert that Bangladesh is “good” to Hindus. This was so avidly accepted as an article of faith by the international media, human rights industry, diplomatic corps, and others that most of those same groups refuse to challenge it. Doing so would expose the fact that these “experts” were wrong and their mistake has cost millions of lives. For the most part, even overwhelming verified evidence cannot get them to question their cherished assumptions.
Another problem is that unlike China, Iran, Pakistan, and other bad state actors, the Bangladeshi government does not commit the atrocities directly. Rather it enables others to do the dirty work for them by refusing to prosecute or punish these criminals, and being far more likely to arrest the victims, as we saw again recently in Comilla. When we identify atrocities, the Bangladeshis then claim that these things happened outside of their control; and to the shame of the rest of the world, it accepts those lies. That also means that the atrocities in Bangladesh are given less attention than other real atrocities against minorities elsewhere.
The third dimension is ideological. Those who claim the mantel of human rights tend to focus their displeasure on democratic countries like Israel, the United States, and India. Their criticism tends to be uncompromising with an assumption that persecution of minorities in these three countries is endemic—a ridiculous assumption given how minorities have grown and flourished in those countries in clear contrast with the countries that surround them.
Finally, the lack of activism by the Hindu community also suppresses recognition of the problem. This includes most groups that have the temerity to remain silent and yet call themselves “pro-Hindu” or Hindu nationalist. As one US Congressman asked me: “We believe you, Richard, but if the situation is as dire as you say, why don’t we hear from our Hindu constituents about it?” Those four factors getting people and governments to stop anti-Hindu atrocities in Bangladesh an uphill battle that we must keep fighting regardless, until justice is secured.
4. You recently took up the issue of the ethnic cleansing of Bangladesh’s Hindu community with that country’s ambassador to the US. How did that go?
The current ambassador to the United States, Mohammad Ziauddin, assumed his duties in September 2014. His appointment represented a positive break from previous Bangladeshi ambassadors under this government. Ambassador Ziauddin is a professional diplomat with a broad perspective. I had my first meeting with him in July 2016, along with former US Congressman Bob Dold in an antechamber of the House Committee on Ways & Means. Ways & Means initiates all tax and other financial legislation and has jurisdiction over trade; so the significance of our having it there and the fact that Congressman Dold was a member of that powerful committee was not lost on the Ambassador.
During our meeting a fascinating and rare thing took place. During our talk, Ambassador Ziauddin admitted to Congressman Dold and me that, yes, Hindus are facing persecution in Bangladesh, but he added that the country is incapable of fixing the problem. Dold then said that we can help them fix it and offered that help. I have spent a lot of time meeting with high Bangladesh officials, and it is rare to hear the sort of honesty on this issue that came from Ambassador Ziauddin. To no one’s surprise, however, after this became known in Dhaka, the ambassador was “convinced” to change his tune, as he put it, “after further research.” So that meeting went very well, the ambassador’s retraction didn’t fool anyone on Capitol Hill. Since that time, the group at that Washington embassy has been cooperative, cordial, and professional with me; although officials in Dhaka generally respond to me with angry denials and blanket claims of Bangladesh being “a land of communal harmony.” Fortunately, privately and out of public view, several have told me a very different tale but fear reprisals if their admissions are ever discovered.
5. What effective measures can the Bangladesh government take to protect the Hindu population in Bangladesh from Islamist attacks and violence? Where has it failed?
The most effective measure is a simple one: apply the rule of law consistently and equally to all citizens; and the fact that no Bangladeshi government has done that is their greatest failure. Several international legal groups have emphasized that the rule of law is dead in Bangladesh; that is, you cannot look at anything on the books or in the constitution if you want to know what is happening to Bangladesh’s Hindus. Remember, the Bangladeshi government for the most part does not itself carry out the atrocities. Rather it enables them by refusing to prosecute and punish criminals who commit crimes against Hindus and other minorities. In other words, when it comes to Hindus, the rule of law is non-existent. While simple, however, this solution requires real commitment from the Bangladeshi government because the injustices it allows occur all over the country and every day. Any Bangladeshi official who knowingly allows anti-Hindu atrocities to occur without rigorous prosecution and punishment of all involved, must be prosecuted as an accessory to the crimes. And prosecution must include the influential and powerful people who fund and organize the attacks, not just the small fry who engage in them for personal gain. For it to work, that process must start with Sheikh Hasina or whoever is Prime Minister and cannot be overlooked no matter who the guilty parties are.
The government also must stop the atrocities it does carry out itself. One is in the maintenance and application of blasphemy laws, for which Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League have given full-throated support. Blasphemy laws must be repealed entirely and immediately. Punishing people for their words is contrary to the basic principles of a free country and of the Bangladeshi constitution as well. The other is arresting Hindus who are accused—almost always without evidence—of making anti-Muslim statements on social media. This is another way to use the law as an agent of oppression. All of these things together would send a signal to human rights abusers and the rest of the world that Bangladesh is serious about being a democracy; to do less sends the opposite message to the same people.
6. India and Bangladesh currently have very good relations. Under Sheikh Hasina, Bangladesh has been a friendly neighbor and a reliable economic and geopolitical partner for India. What can India do to help Bangladesh protect the Hindu minority there without triggering an Islamist backlash against Sheikh Hasina’s elected government which is often accused by the opposition BNP and Islamist groups of being pro-Hindu and too friendly towards India?
First of all, I think the question is premised incorrectly, with the false assumption that somehow the Awami League is better for Hindus than the BNP. Look at the use of the Vested Property Act to seize Hindu land; look at the number of severe attacks on Hindus; and you will see that, if anything, it’s worse now under Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League. If we fear a backlash and remain timid, with the false belief that the Awami League will lift a finger to save Hindus; then we are part of the problem, and Bangladesh’s Hindus will suffer for it.
Now let’s ask this question: Which country benefits more from good India-Bangladesh relations? We know it’s not India. India is enabling Bangladesh’s water supply, which it can change if its cooperation also enables anti-Hindu persecution. India, if it had the will, wanted to could undercut Bangladesh in garment exports, which would severely cripple Bangladesh’s economy. Sheikh Hasina should send Narendra Modi a bouquet of flowers every day to thank him for not doing these things that it can. So, it is cowardly to talk about the good relations, and use that as an excuse for not acting to prevent the ethnic cleansing of Bangladesh’s Hindus.
7. What is the moral responsibility of India and the Modi Government towards Bangladesh’s Hindus? How can Indians be educated about this issue?
Let me start this way. What do you think Israel does when there is antisemitism? It does a lot of things in the background to use its power, but something it does very publicly is that it screams bloody murder. How much has India publicly accused Bangladesh of its attack on Hindus? In fact, I can tell you that Bangladeshi leaders will respond to a strong statement and action by India. Why hasn’t it happened? There was no stomach even to whisper an objection under the previous regime, however, I continue to wait for the current regime to take real action.
Having said that there is one significant action by the Modi government that could signal the beginning of a new Indian policy toward Bangladesh. That’s NRC/CAA. By including Bangladesh, it is the first time an Indian government has publicly acknowledged that Hindus face massive persecution in Bangladesh, and that’s a great thing. Beyond that, it needs to use its geopolitical heft and make a big thing about this everywhere: at the UN, with the United States, at every international forum, etc. If Bangladesh ignores that, India should take specific and severe action, such as seizing garment markets where Bangladesh holds sway, charging for allowing water to flow to Bangladesh from Indian rivers, etc. Whatever the specific action, India needs to take it as a core element of its national policy and international relations. PM Modi needs to tell PM Sheikh Hasina that he is holding her government responsible for what happens and will take the appropriate action if it does not stop.
As to your second question, we have to ask: Educate about what? Because I doubt that there are too many people in India who do not know that Hindus are persecuted in Bangladesh. In 2009, during the election, I met with BJP candidate L K Advani Ji and talked about this. His response was that the people of India must be informed about it; but neither he nor his supporters ever did; nor did anyone else, including groups that call themselves Hindutua, Hindu nationalist, or pro-Hindu. Shame!
8. What about forced religious conversions? Is that still an issue?
It remains a very serious issue. We encounter it regularly in cities and villages. Bangladesh is a country where forcible conversion to Islam is not a crime and will not be prosecuted. Yet, you can kill someone who has converted from Islam without being prosecuted. People will praise you for it and the government won’t even say that such murders are wrong, let alone take action about it.
There is at least one thing that the Hindu community can do. Many of the female victims, once raped and forcibly converted, believe with good cause that they will not be accepted back into their communities; that they will be looked at as if there is something wrong with them now. That’s terrible, and so many victims end up staying with their captors, remaining Muslims, because they have no other options.
If the Hindus communities, especially in villages where this problem is more severe, would make it clear that these women are victims and deserve nothing but support—and that they will be accepted as full and whole members of their Hindu communities; more women will flee from their captors and return to Hinduism and freedom.
9. What can concerned people in India do to help safeguard the human rights of the Hindus in Bangladesh and prevent thecycles of violence against them? Can everything be left to the government there?
Indians have to stop pretending. If Bangladesh’s persecution of Hindus is obvious to so many people half way around the world, does anyone really think it’s a mystery to people next door in India? I can’t believe that anyone is that stupid. There are several things Indians can do. First, since India is a democracy, citizens need to tell people running for office that the only way to get their vote is to take serious action in this matter and never to ignore it. Then, those same citizens have to make good on that and vote only for people who take the matter with the seriousness needed. And as citizens of a free country, they have no less right and obligation to demonstrate than did those Indians who protested the NRC/CAA in Shaheen Bagh.
Second, Indians need to do the same with media; that is, tell them you will not patronize those media who do not highlight this issue, who pretend nothing bad is happening, or who throw out a token article once in a while so they can say they’re doing something. And tell everyone you know to do the same, especially big media advertisers and the decision makers among them.
Third, Indians have to stop cooperating with Bangladesh so long as it is a human rights abuser. Don’t buy their products. Never, no matter what the excuse. Don’t engage in trade or commerce with Bangladesh until this stops. Lobby your governments (states and the center) to be very vocal about this, take specific actions, and make clear why. We should hope that Indian citizens, regardless of their religion or politics, would be equally involved in this effort, just as Hindus protested with Muslims in Shaheen Bagh. Don’t let any other Indians claim that they defend human rights as long as they turn their backs on the Hindus in Bangladesh. Challenge them; don’t let them get away with it!
10. Is the Islamization of Bangladesh a fait accompli, a done deal? Or is the process still unfolding? Can it be rolled back?
The word, Islamization, is problematic. Yes, Bangladesh is a Muslim-majority country with Islam as the official state religion that begins its constitution with the word Bismillah. While we cannot pretend that is not the case, we also must understand that the problem facing Bangladeshis is not Islam per se. That is a matter of faith; by itself, something personal. The problem is radical Islam or Islamists, who have gained a serious foothold in almost every major social institution in Bangladesh.That radicalization can be rolled back only if people care enough to do something and not just gripe about it.
Radical Islamists are being defeated all over the world and are squeezed into a few small pockets. World leaders have to tell Bangladesh that it has three choices: (1) It stops Islamists; (2) It asks other nations to help it stop Islamists, then together they stop Islamists; (3) The international community will take its own actions to stop Islamists. That is, it can be rolled back, but the rest of the world has to stop letting the Bangladeshi government treat Islamists as just another vote bank.
*Bio: Richard Benkin is an American author, human rights activist and a sought-after writer and speaker. His book, “A Quiet Case of Ethnic Cleansing: The Murder of Bangladesh’s Hindus,” provides verified evidence of anti-Hindu atrocities in Bangladesh, the government’s complicity in them, and the rest of the world’s deliberate silence about it. He has been called a “one-man army” for his human rights work which include efforts such as helping free a Muslim journalist who was imprisoned and tortured for writing favorably about Israel, helping people escape terrorist violence, arranging armed protection for a Hindu temple under attack, and more. He is one of the foremost fighters upholding the cause of Bangladesh’s Hindus, helping to get a reluctant world to recognize the tragedy. In 2016, he confronted the Bangladeshi government with evidence of the crimes, got it to admit culpability, and is working with both Washington and Dhaka to resolve the matter. He travels to affected hotspots to comfort victims, confront miscreants–including government officials, and gather evidence of human rights abuses. He has given briefings to the US State Department and influential members of government on Capitol Hill and has had extended discussions with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi. He recently gave addresses in both India and Bangladesh on human rights, geopolitical dynamics, and the actions of major powers.
He also works closely with Pashtun, Baloch, and Sindhi activists to verify and make known the human rights atrocities by the Pakistan government against them and shares findings with the US State Department. In 2019, he and a group of Pashtun activists visited Buchenwald concentration camp to stand together for justice. In “What is Moderate Islam,” he brings together Jewish, Hindu, and Muslim voices to help end non-productive and inaccurate polar thinking that either calls all Muslims jihadis or refuses to critiquepolitical Islam. Dr. Benkin holds a doctorate from the University of Pennsylvania, has held a number of faculty and business positions, is on a number of boards, and regularly serves as an expert witness in U.S. asylum cases involving South Asian refugees.